January 31, 2005

  • Racism - Revisited

    As expected, my previous entry sparked an array of different opinions, views and comments.  I'm sure that no matter what I may say, people are either going to agree with me or disagree with me, labeling me as ignorant or racist.  That's fine...I can agree to disagree but let me address some of the people who found my entry offensive, particularly the black readers.


    First of all, a generalization does NOT EQUAL all black people.  There are plenty of black people that are very ambitious and successful and my generalization would obviously not apply to them.  Yet, the people who find offense to my entry can't seem to distinguish that fact. 


    I define RACISM as having a predisposition towards a particular ethnic group based solely on something superficial like skin color.  That predisposition is manifested in acting or treating that person differently because of that difference.  A criticism of a PART of an ethnic group does NOT equal RACISM.  I make my conclusions about people based on my personal interaction with them.  It doesn't matter to me if you're white, black, Asian, Latino, etc.  If you're an asshole, I'll think you're an asshole (yes that includes other Asians as well).  On the flip side, if I like you as a person, then again, it doesn't matter to me what the color of your skin is.


    I don't act/treat someone differently solely because they're black or any other ethnic/racial group different than me. 


    _______________________________________________


    To my critics:



    • Can you deny that there is a double standard when it comes to black people?  How can you expect everyone to be treated equally when a double standard exists?
    • Can you deny that black people are probably afforded the most opportunities in this country out of all minorities (affirmative action, scholarships, etc.) in an attempt to level the playing field?  When is it enough?

    neecey_reecey: You asked "what does the tsunami song have to do with black people?" Like I said, the song while having racial overtones didn't really bother me that much, it's the double standard that irked me.  Is it ok for a black DJ to play a song making fun of Asians or say on the air that they're going to go "shoot some Asians"??  At the same time, if a white or Asian DJ that played a similar song making fun of blacks or said something like, "I'm going to go lynch me some black people", how fast do you think that person would get fired? 



    • You assume that I "hate" black people because black people are "one of the only ethnic groups that embrace your culture".  You then go on about being "African American" and how just because I choose to deny my cultural background doesn't mean you should also. 

    Please explain to me what this "black culture" you so openly embrace is.  How many black people even know the first thing about Africa or African culture?  *raise your hand* Me! Me! Me! That's great...you're the exception then. What about the rest of the black population?



    • You avoid my question about double standards by stating that there are double standards everywhere and that I should "stop bitching and moaning about things" that I can't change.  Why did you bother commenting to my entry then?  You say that you don't care about racism and that racism will always exist.  Why are you in the NAACP then? 

    If you can honestly sit there and say that there is absolutely no basis behind my criticism about a certain PART (not all) of black people and that there is no double standard, then I'm sorry but I don't think I'm the ignorant one here.  Rather than acknowledging that a problem may exist, you automatically turn criticism into a cry of racism.


    Despite how I may have come off in my previous entry, Asians are far from perfect and I wasn't trying to claim that Asians are better than black people.  I see plenty of subgroups and characteristics of Asians that are less than desirable too.


    The whole point of criticism is to receive it and see if there's any validity to it.  If there is, you can respond by making a change for the better.  By dismissing it without consideration only allows you to live in ignorant bliss, thinking that everything is ok.

Comments (30)

  • stop causing trouble.

  • i definitely agree with you - as stated in my previous comment, yes, i agree as long as we are limiting this to a certain subgroup of blacks.

    in regards to the affirmative action issues - my black coworker thinks its completely fair that she gets all of these opportunities, whereas i dont.  she says "well, asians do better in life anyway because of lack of racism, that we should get these opportunities."  essentially, she's saying that because i will probably make more money than her in the future, she should be allowed to go to school for free, etc.

    i think my coworker is fooling herself into thinking that i get no racism at the work place - no one has ever made a black joke in front of her in a meeting full of executives.  whereas, my own boss has done that once or twice.  people dont question her about her ethnicity (do you celebrate christmas?) every day.  she is blind to the truth if she thinks she gets discriminated more than i do. 

    i believe that sometimes certain blacks (especially ones who grew up in unfortunate circumstances) CANNOT see the truth.  they only know of racism against them - but they wont open their eyes to see that racism against asians is worse.  their excuse is "you do better than us, so racism against you doesnt count" 

    so then the question remains - if we are both discriminated against, and we still do "better" than blacks, then whose fault is it?

  • you just love stirring shit up.

  • I love reading your entries (albeit you do seem to like to stir the shit up). I can see the lawyer in youl.

  • someone needs to spank you for being such a firestarter, i'll have to tell your girl to start cracking that whip.

  • round 2.....fight   haha

  • *sits back with popcorn & soda*

    let the show begin!

    *presses F5 to refresh for possible new comments*

  • you don't have to explain yourself....it's not like everyone in the world wouldn't be scared of a big black nigga who's standing on the corner w/ a nasty look on his face.

  • good entry dave.  your not stirring shit up, you just telling it like it is.

  • lol let me join everyone else with the popcorn. you and houseofgroove totally made my weekend. i love hearing (in this case reading) smart-ppl debates.

  • People that can't differentiate between a critical look at our society concerning race between sheer ignorance and TRUE racism are people that should shut up.

    It is true that many black people like their rims or Escalades and may want to be players/pimps/gangsters. It is true that many Asians open restaurants, laundromats and are good in school. It is also true that it is not all black people or Asians.

    What's the problem in pointing these instances of stereotypes being true and saying we need to get rid of such stereotypes by discouraging it?

    How are we to improve as people without being critical of ourselves, admitting our mistakes and learning from them?

    How are black people going to disprove the stereotype by continuing to provide proof for it? It's the responsibility of those who do not fall into the stereotype to make sure those who are stuck in that stereotype to see this and take the measures to improve themselves.

    How can black people condemn racism and perpetuate racism itself? Don't be hypocritical.

  • the song wasn't so racist, even though it used the term "chinks."  it was more in bad taste.  miss jones's comment "..you think youre better becuz youre asian" was.  if she thinks to dispel the widely accepted generalization (that she used herself in her argument) that asians are better with her sorry ass "youre not" she's sadly mistaken. 

  • To be honest with you, I was disappointed when I saw your last post.  I’ve read your site enough to know that there are a lot of people who give great credit to the things you write. And knowing that, I was surprised that you threw out such controversial ideas without thinking them through thoroughly. When you send out a message that can be misconstrued, a message that can promote hate, and most importantly, a message that can promote racism, you must be careful how you present your ideas.

    Your post spawned comments such as:

    "They lack leadership, they lack drive, they are just ignorant, excuse my language NIGGERS!!!"

    If you claim that racism is not your intent, then your post is, at best, poor at delivering its intended message.  Despite two lengthy posts, several edits, and numerous comments left within those posts, you have yet to clearly deliver your message. Let me be presumptuous and try to articulate the point you were trying to convey:

    Some black people lack drive. Some black people have no accountability. Some black people don’t take advantage of the opportunities their predecessors worked so hard to obtain. These individuals need to get a grip. These individuals need to stop making excuses for themselves. These people need to get their act together.

    If that was your point, I couldn’t agree with you more. And Bill Cosby feels the same way.

    That being said, let’s address a few more issues:

    1. Obstacles facing blacks: No, they are not a bar to success as the slackers would have you believe. But make no mistake of the fact that they exist. You couch the issue in terms of black and white...when in fact, few things in life ever are. From your writing, it’s clear you haven’t given much thought to the validity of these obstacles. Numerous studies exist to show that people with "black-sounding" names have a harder time finding jobs than those who’s ethnicity is unclear, or even those who sound Asian or Latino. My suggestion would be to avoid speaking on the issue until you’ve taken the time to become educated.

    2. The "Double-Standard": There are racist blacks. Al Sharpton...Martin Lawrence...it makes me sick to my stomach. Does the fact there are such people give rise to some "double-standard"? I don’t know. But I offer you this to think about...there are racist Asians. One need look no further than some who commented on your last post. Does this mean, some "double-standard" exists for Asians?  If it does, it's wrong.  For the record, no one should be allowed to spew racism, black, white, asian or other.

    3. Your feelings toward black people: I barely know you, so you have no duty to be honest with me. But I’m going to ask you to be honest with yourself for a second. How do you really feel about blacks people? Do you harbor any resentment? I suspect that you do...and when I read your response to my original comment whatever doubt there may have been was pretty much eliminated. I can write ten thousand words telling you why your ideas are racist and harmful but you won’t understand it until you’re willing to hear the message. Take a look at yourself in the mirror...ask yourself if this is the guy you want to be.

    I’m disheartened. If we can’t even get other Asians to avoid the pitfalls of racism I have no idea how to get our message across to anyone else. It makes me sick when I hear Asians use the terms "nigger" or "spic". It doesn’t mean you’re on my side...it means you would have been the one calling me "chink" or "gook" if you had happened to have been born another color.

    I don’t know. Sometimes I wonder if I’m the idiot for thinking any good can come of all this. Maybe I’m the idiot for thinking people will eventually get it. I don’t know. Whatever...fuck it. At least I’ll go down swinging...

    In any case, my apologies if I came across strongly before. I can get pretty heated about this. This will be the last I say on this subject. I hope there are no hard feelings.

  • House_of_Groove:

    While you may have read my entries in the past, you're right in that you don't really know me.  I intentionally write entries on controversial subjects with a certain slant to them...to evoke responses and comments from readers.  You may think that I'm just spewing out racism without any thought and education but my purpose is to get people discussing the subject at hand, to be able to hear both sides and make conclusions for themselves. 

    While my entry make have spawned racist comments such as the one you posted, am I the cause of the underlying sentiment?  Or is the comment merely a reflection of that person's true disposition?  Racism is such a touchy subject and while I fully agree that it still exists today, nothing is going to change that without it being discussed in the open.  So I write the way I do and open myself to rebuttals and criticism from yourself and other readers (including the black ones who I apparently offended).  While I may not have been clear with my intent, your articulation of my point is correct.

    1) Of course there is still racism and discrimination for blacks, but it's no different for any other minority.  Back in college (which happened to be in a predominantly white area), I was blatantly discriminated against when looking for a job on several occasions because I wasn't white.  To test my theory, I had a white friend apply for the same jobs I did (despite me having actual experience and him with none).  He was offerered jobs on the spot while I wasn't even offered an interview.  I ended up having to work at some fastfood Chinese restaurant at the Food Court in the Mall (how fitting huh?) but I did it anyways because it was still a means of making money.  The point is, you can either respond to racism by striving for something better for yourself or you can resign yourself to mediocrity and use racism as an excuse for failure.  While these obstacles you speak of do exist, how many times have you heard of an Asian being hired for a job or accepted to a certain school to represent the "token Asian guy"?

    2) I never claimed there weren't any racist Asians as I'm sure there are plenty. My point about the double standard was that blacks can openly express racist sentiments (intended to be racist or not) while other races (including Asians) can't.  I agree that no one should be allowed to spew racism but if we really want to eliminate racism and treat people equally, should black people be exempt from having the same courtesy and respect for other races?

    3) My true feelings towards black people? I have none. Like I stated in my entry today, I make my conclusions about people based on my personal interaction with them, regardless of skin color.  Just to let you know, my cousin recently got married to a Jamaican guy and I have absolutely no qualms about it.  As a matter of fact, he's a med school graduate and he's doing very well for himself. 

    I admit, I do hold some resentment...but not towards black people like you may think.  I resent people who don't realize the opportunities afforded them yet they bitch and moan about things not being fair.  I have to work fulltime while going to lawschool.  Not because I want to or because I'm paying my way through school, but because I have to support my family and pay bills.  I've been dating my gf for 4 years yet I can't get married because I can't afford it.  If it weren't hard enough working and going to school at nights, half of my evening class are students who don't even work but decided to go nights so they have more time to study than the working ones, so ultimately they can do better.  No one's ever handed me anything on a silver platter.  No one's ever given me an opportunity because I was Asian.  No one's ever given me any additional consideration because of my skin color.  But that's life and I deal with it. 

    We can all hope that racism ceases to exist eventually but as you've made note of how racist Asians can be, I hope you see how a lot of people fail to acknowledge the accountability on the part of black people regarding the perpetuation of racism.  The comments of neecey_reecey illustrate my point perfectly.  She accuses me of being racist and basically bitching about the double standard in racism, yet she is proud to be a member of the NAACP - an organization supposedly for ALL minorities.  There should be more people like Bill Cosby trying to wake up the black community and educating them to be more ambitious, rather than people like Al Sharpton that seek to enflame the fires of hate and racism within the black population.

    There are no apologies needed as I didn't take your attacks personally.  As I've said, my entry was intentionally written to spark controversy and I'd actually bet that I've had way more interaction with black people and minority education than you give me credit for.

  • *APPLUASE*

    First,I must say thank you for dedicating over half of your second entry to me. I never thought that my comments would have caused you to do all of that.

    With that said lets get to the subject at hand.

    If you will re-read my comments i never once called you or your entry racist.I  never said that you "hate" black people. You misconstrued my statements . I was simply disgreeing with you, which i am well within my rights to do. Now, reguarding your comments about me.....we are all more than just "American" I see you as an "Asian American" as i would consider a white person "Anglo" being American is a nationality not a culture like African,Asian,or European, etc...... This will be my last time addressing this issue about the difference between "black" and "African American"  i feel its ridiculous too tell me im not African American....because last time i checked "black" and "white" were just colors in a Crayola coloring box.

    Secondly, I do agree with the fact that there are SOME black people that use the "race card" ALL THE TIME...and that pisses me off as well, but because i am a African American i will always stand behind my people reguardless of what they do. Im not condoning all actions committed by African Americans, blacks, or whatever you deem the politically correct term to call myself or any other American who is of African decent . I love my culture so all i was saying to you was i disagree with you for reasons stated previously.

    Finally, addressing your comment about The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People or NAACP for those who didnt even know what it stood for. Despite popular belief NAACP is not all about sit-in's, marching and protesting we strive for the constant upliftment of minorities as well as the general population. Why is that people feel intimadated by this great organization? Does the thought of African Americans doing something positive for the greater good of mankind threathen you??? So then you cant sit and say black people are uneducated, poor, lack drive, leadership and whatever else you sit and say in the comfort of your own home whenever no one else is listening.

    This will be my last time commentting on the subject because it will NEVER end. Personally i'd rather exert my enegry on my studies; since im only expected to be proverty sticken and uneducated.   Im not athletic enough to be the next "Serena Williams" and get a free ride through life right? So with that being said please direct all questions,comments, and concerns to my Xanga....since you so thoughtfully put a link to my page in your entry.

    http://www.naacp.org <<<<<<< Visit this site to educate yourself on the purpose of this organization.

    Sincerely,

    Trenise D. Simmons

  • Phatboy thanks for swinging by my neck of the woods. Wish it would have been on better circumstances but nevertheless I've come to realize that we are all entitled to our own opinions. I am disguisted by the comments that were made on Hot97 and I signed a petition started to have Ms Jones face consequences for her comments. I have reread both of your entries and I must say that some of your points were grounded in truth but a little misconstrued b/c of stereotypes that exist.

    What you said about Asians not benefitting from Affimative Action could be a result of corporate america and the stereotypes out there. Such stereotypes such as all Asians are smart and don't need any help..etc..etc..I'm sure you've heard them all. Isn't it possible for the college admissions board to see and applicant with the Asian box checked and automatically assume things? I believe that some Black people actually go to college off merit because I go to a prestigious school and I never checked my race.

    I agree that their seems to be a double standard that exists also. For example with black and white comedians and how Rush L. was fired immediately after his comments about D. McNabb. I don't know why this double standard exists but I do realize that it probably will not go away any time soon. I think there is this political correctness of whats appropriate to say and what isn't, when it comes to my race b/c of slavery and how we were treated as a people until recently. Also because the mass media generates these stereotypes that people believe but no one really wants to admit to themselves that "Hey I believe this to be true, so does that mean I'm a racist?" So they keep all of these feelings bottled up and it festers and it ultimately turns racism and hate.

    Also I think some of your comments are based on assumptions. Maybe if you feel this strongly about this topic you should do a research on Black people and what they are doing, and have things gotten better. Please don't base your opinions on the Black people you know, the movies, rap music, or even what Bill Cosby have to say about our race. Maybe you should get statistics on Black People. Well once again thanks Phatboy for swinging through and writing. Feel free to drop in anytime. I'm up for having a rational discussion on this without all the stereotypes and generalizations. Good luck with everything you choose to do.

  • Thanks for reading my comment. I appreciate that you take all criticisms into consideration and try to learn from it. I see that you are studying law, so I think this will help you.  You should read the federal governments policy on affirmative action, because you will realize that you are wrong about your view that Affirmative Action is not for Asians. I think your view might have a lot to do with your location, if you come from an area where there is a large population of Asians and therefore a large number of Asian applicants for jobs and college education, of course affirmative action may not apply, because you are then a part of the majority. However if you come here to the South, and applied my school where there is only a 6% Asian student population, Affirmative Action would apply to you.  I would also like you to take this statement from The National Asian Pacific American Legal Consortium into consideration. They made it in response to the University of Michigan decision. 

    “Asian Pacific Americans continue to experience discrimination in many arenas and affirmative action is still necessary to address glass ceiling issues and exclusion from business opportunities,” said Karen K. Narasaki, President and Executive Director of NAPALC. “The vast support from the Asian Pacific American community on this brief makes it clear that Asian Pacific Americans support affirmative action and value diversity because diversity in the classroom better prepares all students, including Asian Pacific Americans, to succeed in the workplace and the community.”

    “We felt it was important to make a statement in support of affirmative action because Asian Pacific Americans are too often used as a pawn in the affirmative action debate,” said Stewart Kwoh, Executive Director of the Asian Pacific American Legal Center. “The University of Michigan’s admissions programs are thoughtfully drafted to provide a balance between achieving diversity and maintaining fairness in the admissions process.”

    Also in regards to you working your way through school. I never doubted that people of all nationalities and races struggle and don't believe I mentioned this in my comment. I commend you on your effort to better your lifestyle and wish you well, but please also realize that there are many African-Americans doing the same. I think you should definitely reconsider the generalizations you have made about my race.  We are a strong people who value hard work and education, if not how would have made so much progress when we were not allowed to fully exercise our legal rights as equals until the 1960s?  So please do your research and provide facts rather than broad generalizations (blatant stereotypes in my opinion) next time before you go making such broad claims about things you do not have the authority to judge or comment on.

  • All this "racial pride/power" and racial alliegences are only fueling racism.

    Shout "Black power!" and look around... now shout "White power" and run like hell.

    Apparently I'm a racist for wanting equality of being able to celebrate my heritage? Yet I am forced to celebrate other races via Black pride month?

  •  

    What Is Affirmative Action?

    Born of the civil rights movement three decades ago, affirmative action calls for minorities and women to be given special consideration in employment, education and contracting decisions.

    Institutions with affirmative action policies generally set goals and timetables for increased diversity – and use recruitment, set-asides and preference as ways of achieving those goals.

    In its modern form, affirmative action can call for an admissions officer faced with two similarly qualified applicants to choose the minority over the white, or for a manager to recruit and hire a qualified woman for a job instead of a man. Affirmative action decisions are generally not supposed to be based on quotas, nor are they supposed to give any preference to unqualified candidates. And they are not supposed to harm anyone through "reverse discrimination."

    sadly people are truly ignorant to the power of Affirmative Action, its not here for the "blacks" its here for the minorties, and I've seen it work for all different races, even whites where they were the minority, along with females and people with disabilities, deal with your issues but do not degrade something that is basically giving people a chance to succeed in life.  You cant look at the "ghetto" and think thats its only black people in there because there are many ghettos of different races, but you would have to travel to see that, I'm only assuming you haven't done this because of your comments.  And as for blacks blaming whites for their situation, you cannot deny teh existance of oppression, everyone is a victim of it and its powers are strong, it just so happens that white people are usually the ones in power and become the blamed.  You can't tell me the same opportunities you find in a upper class area is the same in the mid and lower class areas, that is why theres Affirmative Action.

    Comments on black history month, ok lets clarify some things, were talking about a race wiped of their history, their original history, their original home.  Every chinese, hell any other race I know can pinpoint a true point of origin, a village where they still have family, what do blacks have, to call theirselves African American the most, they can barely pinpoint the plantation their ancestors derived from, or should I say sold to.  I'm sadden by your ignorance to oppression, maybe you should take some courses on other races or gender issue classes, become truly educated on a topic that you seem to hold no foundation on.

  • your entries never ceases to amuse me.  i totally agree with you.

    -ray leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

  • every race in this world is a victim of double standards. and a person can claim to be not rascist, but everyone is prejudice. diversity can scare people and prejudice and stereo types help nulify the fear of the unknown. it's human nature. but when it turns into hate is when we have problems.

  • good post again.

    Furthermore, we have called whites white and blacks black for years.  By saying that there is a such thing as "european" or "african" heritage that is by any means cohesive, that is just neglecting the facts.  Blacks and whites are different than other Americans historically, because European and African ancestors have lived here for years.  This nation is built upon their backs and the land stolen by native americans.

    I have written about this before: http://www.xanga.com/item.aspx?user=craigramblings&tab=weblogs&uid=47373390

    Essentially, for years Europeans and Africans were to only two ethnicities that generally looked radically different from one another.  Thus, the terms black and white stuck (unless we speak of the word "negro" which was acceptable but black also existed and it was fairer.  There is also the whole "negroid, caucasoid, and mongoloid" thing too, but that has also gone to pass.)  It is short to say black and white, and they connote the one and only true difference between people.  Physically, one's skin is darker or lighter.

    So why the hell are we saying this "african american" crap while sticking with white?  Am I JUST white?  Is there something wrong with black?  They are both quick, easy, and non offensive.  The term "african american" has been created to spread the split between blacks and whites.  Hopefully, we can come up with one sylable words for everyone for the use of generalizing appearance.  sociological terms imply that people are inherently different.

  • haha hello there dear long time N0 talk whaz up!!??  she's actually just a girl off of a web site http://www.suicidegirls.com

  • Mad props and love for you man. Thanks for being a voice for all minorities.

  • you think too much. relax.

  • you're hilarious. why aren't you posting lately man? i miss your crazy entries! i won't ever share who "JH" is b/c i think you may know who he is...

  • Found your site via Young's... noticed your comment, and I have to say I'm a WoW fan/plyer too!  What server do you play on, and what's your character's race/name/level?

  • Thanks for the birthday props......

    I thought you had died of old age...ya haven't updated in so long.......

  • I just happend upon your site and read both entries that have seemed to cause much argument.  I agree totally with what you said.  I also think that those that seem to have taken it the wrong way did not look at the post in a critical way.  I am a white female and I have issues much the same as you.  I must give you a thumbs up for posting it, I tried something like that and got death threats.  Anyway... Kudos...

  • ahahahh that shit is hilarious! apparently u know what case im talking about!!!!

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