September 29, 2004
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Law School - Sure thing or a Gamble?
There seems to be a common misconception that pursuing a career in law automatically results in making a lot of money. In response to my last entry, people tried to assure me that once I finish law school, I'll be making a lot of money and everything will be better. As much as I appreciate the votes of confidence, the future isn't lined with silver as many think it might be.
During my time on Xanga, I've received comments and emails from people interested in pursuing law, asking for any advice that I might have to give. Well, here it goes:
Let me explain to you first the typical hiring process when it comes to getting a job as a lawyer. I'm sure you've heard that the first year in law school is the most important. Here's why:
Assuming you're a fulltime student (3 years), you sign up for on campus interviews after your first year. With the hundreds of firms out there, you're only allowed to select a handful of them to send your resume to. This is to limit the number of applicants each firm gets considering the large pool of law students seeking jobs. Upon receiving these resumes, law firms pick which ones they want to offer an interview to. This initial selection is based pretty much on your first year grades and ranking which is why there is such emphasis put on first year grades. (If you're a part time student like I am, your first 2 years are taken into consideration.)
If you're lucky enough to be selected for an interview, you now have to go through the interviewing process where you have to sell yourself as being better than the other students who also passed the first hurdle. After a series of interviews, the firm will narrow down the field even more, finally settling on only about 8 students total. These 8 students are offered a summer associate position for the following summer (end of 2nd year).
Once you land a job as a summer associate (which pays around $2500 a week for most corporate firms), if the firm likes you, they will offer you a fulltime position for when you graduate. Although it's rare that summer associates don't get offers for fulltime employment, it does happen.
The starting salary for first year associates at these firms is pretty much standard across the board at $125,000 a year with bonus. With applicants coming from law schools all over the country (more so if you're looking for a job in a city like NY or LA), you can see why the selection process is so stringent.
Because every law student wants to land one of these jobs, you can imagine how competitive the atmosphere can get in law school. Unlike college where you can make friends and goof around, in law school you have to look at everyone like they're your competitor, because they are.
What makes the competition even greater is the grading curve that all schools have. If you think by simply knowing the law you're going to do well, you're wrong. Law school exams consist of one cumulative final at the end of the semester...in essay form. Unfortunately, despite how much you think you know, you really can't predict how well you did on an exam.
For example, let's say you have 3 students in the same class: A, B and C. All 3 students have studied and know the material. When it comes to grading the exam, A wrote his answer a little better than B, who wrote his answer a little better than C. Because of the grading curve, one student HAS to get an A, one a B and the other a C. So theoretically, C can know the material inside and out but he can still end up with only a C. Since the answers are in essay format, there's also a subjective aspect regarding the grading. In my example I used 3 students but imagine being a professor grading the papers of 50 students.
If you had to read the answers of 50 students all talking about the same subject, do you think you can be objective and grade each exam relative to the other 49? Highly unlikely.
When someone asks me how I did on my finals, I tell them I honestly don't know. From my experience, I've had exams where I thought I bombed but ended up doing really well in and other exams where I thought I kicked ass only to be let down by the grade I actually got.

Going back to the job situation, if you're not able to secure a job as a summer associate before graduating, you'll end up joining the MAJORITY of law school graduates basically scrounging to get whatever job they can after graduation. It's funny when someone asks a law student what type of law they want to practice, because ultimately they're going to practice in whatever field they can get a job in.
Regarding these jobs obtained outside the summer associate program, believe it or not the pay is much less than you would think. I actually know several lawyers who were making $40,000 coming out of law school. With $100,000+ in school loans looming over your head, the competitive nature within school is intensified.
So you managed to land a summer associate position and think you're set. Guess what? You still have the Bar Exam to worry about. If you thought taking a 3-4 hour cumulative exam covering an entire semester's worth of material was difficult, imagine taking an exam over the course of 2 days covering material from 3-4 years.
In case you didn't know, in order to practice law in a particular state, you have to take the bar exam for that state. So if you wanted to practice law in NY, NJ and CT, you'd have to take 3 bar exams over the course of 4 days. Sounds fun doesn't it?
I am currently in my 3rd year and to be honest, my grades weren't good enough to land a summer associate position. Considering I work fulltime and go to school at nights, I suppose it's not surprising. I work from 9:30-5:30 and have class from 6:00-10:00. By the time I get home, it's almost 11:30pm and I'm simply exhausted. I try to read on the commute home but usually end up dozing off. I try to catch up on whatever reading I can on the weekends and I save my vacation days to take a week off right before finals to cram my ass off. I admit I do get lazy sometimes and don't utilize my spare time to the fullest. Don't get me wrong, I'm not doing bad in school, but just not good enough.
My advice to those out there considering law is to really think about it. Law school is a HUGE investment in time and money and the odds are stacked against you. There is nothing certain about pursuing a career in law. There is no guarantee that you're going to make money.
In light of my previous entry, I hope now you can see where my worrying and stress about the future comes from. I know there are lawyers on Xanga and other law students. The above is simply my experience with it so far.
P.S. I forgot to mention...I was reading the NY Law Journal yesterday and it said that the passing score on the bar exam will be raised by 5 points each year for the next 3 years starting with the July 2005 bar exam. So even if you make it through law school and manage to have a job lined up, it's going to be harder to pass the bar exam now. Oh boy! I can't wait!
Comments (49)
i can't believe i actually read this whole post.
this would probably be a good read for some of my friends who just started law school. another thing I noticed about law school is that anyone can "go" to it. i know someone that graduated from film and said that if he doesn't land a decent job as an editor, he'll go to law school. I'm sure there are a lot of people that pursue law because it's what they honestly want to do, but there are also so many people that go into law as a fallback.
thanks for the insightful entry. im still gonna go no matter what. and hopefully my law firm hires me as a summer associate. =P.
i was jus thinking...do u KNO how competitive i am?? shit...ask choiiiiii haha. i think ill do well. eek...
all fields are competitive. top firms/companies recruit the top kids from the top schools. it doesn't matter on the industry.
i have friends who have those $125k positions.
they still bitch. after taxes, more like 75k. $2000 month apt in Manhattan. $1500 student loan payment per month. long hours. no advancement.
my dad is trying to force grad school on me as well...to take my GRE. i dunno...for parents...having your masters seems like a guarentee to success in the real world. but truthfully...i've realized most of success has nothign to do with education, but networking and being at the right place at the right time. sucks, huh?
geee...just reading your post is stressing me out....well...dont kno what to say except... keep your head up...and well...at least you're still good looking....
my parents have been pushing law school on me forever. korean ppl love doctors and lawyers.
why are they raising the score by 5 points each year for the next 3 years?
There is the same misconception in medicine. And then my ex went into the legal field..so I know what you mean. The misconceptions...are annoying...esp. when others think they know what they are talking about without the actual experience. ah..dapdapae! hahahaha....
with many highly qualified lawyers already out on the market, most megafirms do not looking for someone right out of school unless one is from top tier school and have previously worked at the firm. instead, lateral hiring is now an integral part of most law firms’ hiring strategy - hopefully, you are already aware of this.
So basically what you're saying is, after law school, you have to go through some interviews before you get a high paying job, right?
Wow.. i was gonna go in to Law but your entry just killed it.. - JUST KIDDING. Sounds crzy...
Goddam, thank god i didnt go to law school.
so glad i never wanted to be a lawyer.
yea i feel thats pretty similiar to other fields as well. there are too many people pursuing teh same careers, accountants, lawyers, doctors, etc. just gotta work your ass off and when that comes off still work as hard.
Um... yeah... I don't know about the rest of your subscribers, but all I read was "blah blah blah blah... I'm gonna be a livin' phat lawya~man... blah blah blah... you'll never be as rich as moi witcho non-lawya~ass... blah blah blah"... hehehe... just kidding.
Well Mr. Lawyer friend o' mine... hows about helping me out with this fucking speeding ticket of mine (the one I got on New Years). I postponed again, but this time the judge made me post a bond... fuckers.. =) B
im interested in law and good thing you explained how it is in law school. still debating whether to go to school again....my mom said NO....others said YES... I say I DUNNO...
i'm very familiar w/ job hunting process for law students. not to be harsh but i don't think it's worth going to law school if you're gonna have an office in ghetto k-town making $40k. (it's interesting how these peeps are the ones that go around bragging that they're lawyers.)
every single lawyer i know does not like practicing law. from what i hear from these peeps, they're only in it cuz of $$. then what about those peeps who tell me they want to go to law school but it's NOT cuz of their dream of making 6 figures?? are they lying?
good entry and I agree with you completely. People automatically assume that being a lawyer means you're going to be rich. Not quite. and I also despise people who say they are going to go to law school because they like to talk and argue a lot... yeah cause that's what being a lawyer is all about...
i'm going next year and am still debating on full or part time... any comments about that?
wow... reading this brings me back to the days of me wanting to go to law school... your insight is right on point with materials i read about law school and thereafter.
but you forget that it might be more of a paved road for those that were able to land a summer associate-ship (is that a word?) but youll eventually get to where you want to get by continuing to work hard. all in all, its not how much you make when you start out... its how much you eventually make. and i know the immediacy of funds is very high up there in terms of your family situation, but what can you do but be patient.
isnt your day job as a legal assistant? my firm (which is one of the largest, so you wouldnt normally think they do this) hires a lot of one-time paralegals that go on to law school... of course, they are summer associates here first. is that an option for you at wherever youre working? im sure its not a new idea for you.
but whatever, every little bit helps, no?
oh, and just for the rec, the desire to be an attorney for me was never for financial reasons... if that was the case, i wouldve just gotten my mba and worked half as hard to earn the same amount of dough. passion is what makes one work hard at something, not the every other friday paycheck.
Go fulltime blahbyul - if you gonna go to law school best to go all the way. Also, if you go to a top-10 school its not as competitive because everyone knows they will land those $125k jobs just as long as they don't royally fuck up. But if you go to 2nd or lower 1st tier its definitely cutthroat. As far as taxes and living expenses, that will go for any job. Good luck with your interviews and school, unfortunately it ain't easy making $$ =(
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~aLLi
my old one was http://www.xanga.com/allinstyle53190 but i changed it to the new one kk thanks hit me up
i totally agree with everything you said, and have heard the same opinion from many of my co-workers. I mean, the firm I work for hires JD reviewers who have already been through law school but can't land jobs.. so now they're making like $30/hr, which is barely enough to cover their debt and living expenses.
it's basically a bunch of filters to weed out those who won't make the cut in the end. i guess one thing is certain in the area of big firm corporate law- they end up with lawyers who are the best and have stamina and dedication.
i mean honestly, if i don't get into a top 25 law school.. i'm goin to business school instead. BUSINESS IS THE WAY TO GO.. haha
goddamn!! you have it tough...
you gotta love the random proppers on serious entries.
To a person who has been considering law school for the past 3 years (and still am), that was very insightful. Thanks.
oh boy that is tough. but u're doing it, so that counts for a lot!!
wut up fat boy
that sounds rough!!! ah!
i hear there are more law school students in school that there are lawyers actually practicing law. truth or fiction?
did you happen to read OneL before deciding to go to law school? I read it and I said NO to the thought of going.
hey dave~ long time. hope you've been well. anyhow, your post hit close to home...it's so frustrating knowing that we're investing all this time and money into something that quite possibly might end up burdening us (and our families) for the rest of our lives. i guess we just have to roll with the punches huh. good luck!
1) I really admire how you're working FT and going to law school at the same time. I couldn't even handle a part-time job during college. 2) Thanks for the entry, pretty insightful since I didn't know the stuff about what actually goes on IN law school. 3) This is gonna sound kinda freaky, but do you work for HHR by any chance? From your profile pic, I think I've seen you around my workplace...??
hi
You're right. But if there's one thing that I know in any kind of job market, it's connections. Connections will give you an edge. Never a guarantee but ppl should network often JUST IN CASE an opportunity comes up. Stop scaring everyone Fatty!
Well, I like having an edge and I'm an opportunist. So ya know what? We should all be networking like crazy.
Is it just as difficult to be a doctor? Probably.
Good luck w/ your studies.
excellent entry. i was at this crossroads a few years ago. i ended up going to b-school. looking back, i thank god. nobody enjoys being a an atty. money is not great (except for a select few) and work is horrible and tedious. anybody who is debating between b-school and law...if you can get into a decent ranked b-school, that's the way to go.
damn...
Johns Hopkins' undergraduate program is just as evil because its full of competitive pre-med scum.
Come enjoy my xanga and subscribe I'm always trying to brighten someones day!!!!!
I have the same schedule for law school, except I start my day at work at 7 am. Bleah.
I'm a 1L btw.
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dun worry you will do good, my boss said the bar is not THAT hard, if u need any help, let me know. btw, you are into personal injury field rite?
Wow, very deep, Good ma nof you to point out what is rarely seen....the truth
Man I am glad I never went towards that direction. I have several friends that started their own practice and they are miserable. They tell me that they feel more like a collector and paper pusher than an attorney cuz their clients never pay them.
My bf is a lawyer and I was with him all through law school and the bars. Luckily he passed and I'm sure you will also. good luck!
Wow, that was very well written and made me seriously consider my carreer goals. I think u where just being modest about ur grades, u have strong writing skills. or... is it just that hard?
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